• 1,4 Butanediol As A Ghb Alternative?

    Home Forums Chemically Correct Neuroscience/Nootropics 1,4 Butanediol As A Ghb Alternative?

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    • #528681

      eclypz
      Member

      If I understand correctly some of it will convert to ghb. It’s toxic to the body, whereas ghb is not. I believe people say it’s dirtier in experience too, more yucky feeling…

      #529103

      Anonymous

      i believe its a pro-cursor, turning into GHB the same way alcohol gets broken down. There have been anecdotal reports that it is quite harmful to the liver and kidneys… however I have yet to see any medical literature stating this.

      #529104

      Anonymous

      i believe its a pro-cursor, turning into GHB the same way alcohol gets broken down. There have been anecdotal reports that it is quite harmful to the liver and kidneys… however I have yet to see any medical literature stating this.

      #529105

      Anonymous

      i believe its a pro-cursor, turning into GHB the same way alcohol gets broken down. There have been anecdotal reports that it is quite harmful to the liver and kidneys… however I have yet to see any medical literature stating this.

      #529320

      Anonymous

      1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it’s toxic.

      #529321

      Anonymous

      1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it’s toxic.

      #529569

      sabertooth
      Member

      1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it’s toxic.

      Behav Pharmacol. 2006 May;17(3):239-47. Links

      Discriminative stimulus effects of flumazenil: perceptual masking by baclofen, and lack of substitution with gamma-hydroxybutyrate and its precursors 1,4-butanediol and gamma-butyrolactone.Koek W, Carter LP, Wu H, Coop A, France CP.

      Department of Psychiatry, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, Texas 78229-3900, USA. [email]koek@uthscsa.edu[/email]

      Pigeons trained to discriminate 0.1 mg/kg flumazenil, proposed as an in-vivo model to study interactions with diazepam-insensitive gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)A receptors, were tested with various GABAergic and non-GABAergic compounds. As a result of its pharmacological selectivity, the model was suitable for further examining previously reported flumazenil-like effects of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB). Flumazenil and the GABAA negative modulator Ro 15-4513 produced 82-100% flumazenil-appropriate responding. Diazepam and the direct-acting GABAA agonists muscimol and 4,5,6,7-tetrahydroisoxazolo[5,4-c]pyridine-3-ol (THIP) produced 38-64% flumazenil-appropriate responding. [b]GHB, its precursors 1,4-butanediol (1,4-BD) and gamma-butyrolactone (GBL)[/b], and the GABAB agonists baclofen and SKF97541 produced 0-24% flumazenil-appropriate responding. Baclofen shifted the flumazenil dose-response curve to the right and down, possibly involving perceptual masking of the discriminative stimulus effects of flumazenil by agonist activity at GABAB receptors. These masking effects of baclofen were blocked by the GABAB antagonist CGP35348. When CGP35348 was given together with GHB to block its GABAB agonist effects, GHB did not produce flumazenil-appropriate responding. Conceivably, effects of GHB at non-GABAB receptors (e.g. diazepam-sensitive GABAA receptors and GHB receptors) may interfere with the expression of its flumazenil-like discriminative stimulus effects. The asymmetric substitution between GHB and flumazenil is consistent with the hypothesis that the discriminative stimulus effects of GHB consist of several components, not all of which are mimicked by flumazenil.

      #529570

      sabertooth
      Member

      1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it’s toxic.

      Behav Pharmacol. 2006 May;17(3):239-47. Links

      Discriminative stimulus effects of flumazenil: perceptual masking by baclofen, and lack of substitution with gamma-hydroxybutyrate and its precursors 1,4-butanediol and gamma-butyrolactone.Koek W, Carter LP, Wu H, Coop A, France CP.

      Department of Psychiatry, University of Texas Health Science Center, San Antonio, Texas 78229-3900, USA. [email]koek@uthscsa.edu[/email]

      Pigeons trained to discriminate 0.1 mg/kg flumazenil, proposed as an in-vivo model to study interactions with diazepam-insensitive gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA)A receptors, were tested with various GABAergic and non-GABAergic compounds. As a result of its pharmacological selectivity, the model was suitable for further examining previously reported flumazenil-like effects of gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB). Flumazenil and the GABAA negative modulator Ro 15-4513 produced 82-100% flumazenil-appropriate responding. Diazepam and the direct-acting GABAA agonists muscimol and 4,5,6,7-tetrahydroisoxazolo[5,4-c]pyridine-3-ol (THIP) produced 38-64% flumazenil-appropriate responding. [b]GHB, its precursors 1,4-butanediol (1,4-BD) and gamma-butyrolactone (GBL)[/b], and the GABAB agonists baclofen and SKF97541 produced 0-24% flumazenil-appropriate responding. Baclofen shifted the flumazenil dose-response curve to the right and down, possibly involving perceptual masking of the discriminative stimulus effects of flumazenil by agonist activity at GABAB receptors. These masking effects of baclofen were blocked by the GABAB antagonist CGP35348. When CGP35348 was given together with GHB to block its GABAB agonist effects, GHB did not produce flumazenil-appropriate responding. Conceivably, effects of GHB at non-GABAB receptors (e.g. diazepam-sensitive GABAA receptors and GHB receptors) may interfere with the expression of its flumazenil-like discriminative stimulus effects. The asymmetric substitution between GHB and flumazenil is consistent with the hypothesis that the discriminative stimulus effects of GHB consist of several components, not all of which are mimicked by flumazenil.

      #529640

      eclypz
      Member

      1,4B is toxic and has been illegal in the US for awhile. It was made as a legal alternative to GH* and GBL, but it does not convert over to GH* like GBL does which is why it’s toxic.

      It converts using Alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase. If you’re short on these enzymes for one reason or another then yes it could be very nasty.

      I’ve rekindled an interest in these types of things. I lament for the lost opportunities from the early nineties to sample these wonderful flavors.

      #529686

      Sir Foxx
      Member

      I’ve used it with no problems. The only real difference I noticed between it and real GHB, was that at higher doses(4 grams or more) you could become very dizzy feeling, whereas I don’t get that from GHB.

      #530148

      quigs
      Member

      I’ve used it with no problems. The only real difference I noticed between it and real GHB, was that at higher doses(4 grams or more) you could become very dizzy feeling, whereas I don’t get that from GHB.

      From the reading that I’ve done (although limited) it seems that it is a pretty good alternative to GHB as it does convert to G, which crosses the BBB. The main concern that I’ve had was with things such as liver/kidney toxicity of the compound. Some reports seem to claim little/no toxicity while others claim toxicity is extremely high.

      The main reason that I’m looking into it is for an alcohol alternative, but if liver toxicity is comperable to that of good ‘ol etOH then I feel that I might as well grab a cold one.

      I’m also curious about the legal aspects to this chem. I’ve seen it available online, but I’m wondering if distribution is watched in any way. Again, if I run the risk of having the men in black show up at my door its really not worth it IMO.

      #530149

      quigs
      Member

      I’ve used it with no problems. The only real difference I noticed between it and real GHB, was that at higher doses(4 grams or more) you could become very dizzy feeling, whereas I don’t get that from GHB.

      From the reading that I’ve done (although limited) it seems that it is a pretty good alternative to GHB as it does convert to G, which crosses the BBB. The main concern that I’ve had was with things such as liver/kidney toxicity of the compound. Some reports seem to claim little/no toxicity while others claim toxicity is extremely high.

      The main reason that I’m looking into it is for an alcohol alternative, but if liver toxicity is comperable to that of good ‘ol etOH then I feel that I might as well grab a cold one.

      I’m also curious about the legal aspects to this chem. I’ve seen it available online, but I’m wondering if distribution is watched in any way. Again, if I run the risk of having the men in black show up at my door its really not worth it IMO.

      #21525

      quigs
      Member

      I’ve done some reading about GHB alternatives and come across 1,4 Butanediol (BDO, Butylene glycol). It seems to be available from some chemical supply houses and the feedback I’ve seen says its effects are comperable to GHB/GBL.

      I’m curious to see if anyone’s had experiences with the compound? In particular, I’d like to know if anyone has information on effectiveness, toxicity, and legality. It doesn’t seem to be federally regulated (like GHB/GBL) as it is a commonly used chemical everyday household items. It seems only a few states have some regulations on the stuff.

      #377714

      superluminal
      Member

      I was using GBL daily for a little over 2 years. The place I worked had drums of it! It was my one-way ticket to hell. Early on, I converted some to GHB, but liked the buzz of GBL better. I was taking 3ml of it every 2-3 hours around the clock at that time. I would wake up, or come to, and have to dose or I would suffer withdrawals. I detoxed off it twice, which for me caused hallucinations and other unpleasant things for a couple days. I think it’s called the rebound effect? I guess I had 2 years of elevated GH? My body was quite swollen. I also used the butanediol for awhile. I never had any toxicity issues with it that I am aware of. I recently tried phenibut. It brought back the old craving the second time I used it. I ended up dumping it. I hope I’m done screwing with my GABA receptors.

      #377750

      Anonymous

      [QUOTE=JASOG888;655802]I was using GBL daily for a little over 2 years. The place I worked had drums of it! It was my one-way ticket to hell. Early on, I converted some to GHB, but liked the buzz of GBL better. I was taking 3ml of it every 2-3 hours around the clock at that time. I would wake up, or come to, and have to dose or I would suffer withdrawals. I detoxed off it twice, which for me caused hallucinations and other unpleasant things for a couple days. I think it’s called the rebound effect? I guess I had 2 years of elevated GH? My body was quite swollen. I also used the butanediol for awhile. I never had any toxicity issues with it that I am aware of. I recently tried phenibut. It brought back the old craving the second time I used it. I ended up dumping it. I hope I’m done screwing with my GABA receptors.[/QUOTE]

      Withdrawals were most likely more down to a fried GABA-B system, would be my guess. Hallucinations could be related to acetylcholine. GHB is known to elevate acetylcholine dramatically, so when the drug leaves your body, this adds to the horrendous/weird/distorted feeling, especially if you dare try to get some sleep!

      I remember when I used to take piracetam, I would take GHB, pass out, and have some of the most unbelievable dreams. They were dreams that were not even related to me as a person. It wasn’t something I could relate to personally. I had no part to play, as I appeared to be just observing. It was like somebody had picked up a story book, opening it out at a random page, and everything would come to life in my head, with such astounding detail, and meaning. I never once got these experiences from piracetam or GHB, alone. This indicated to me that the two compounds probably interacted in some sort of way, possibly through a double whammy elevation of acetylcholine.

      When withdrawing from G at various times, the hallucinations would also be quite bizzare, almost spiritual in their presence. Again, I think the manner in which acetylcholine is increased with GHB, probably plays a big part in this particular phenonomon.

      #377796

      small doses of phenibut elminate all GHb/Gbl withdrawals…

      #377864

      superluminal
      Member

      Back in 2000, I had not heard of phenibut. Actually when I ended up in the ER a few times, nobody there knew what GBL was. I thought I was so smart finding a drug that didn’t show up on the usual drug tests. I would get pulled over with an 8 ounce bottle of GBL in the car. I told the cops it was paint remover. Once they smelled it, they believed me. I obviously can’t control any use of GABA agonists. It’s been 8 years since I took any(except for my phenibut trial). I wonder what kind of shape my GABA receptors are in now. Anyone care to guess?

      #377865

      ^^8 years since last using gaba drugs??i would imagine they are back to normal i guess, hard to say as its just my opinion that once you have used and abused drugs, certain neurotransmitters/hormones NEVER return to what they were before drugs…

      #377866

      and yes, ghb/Bdo/GBL are amazing in that drug tests are no worry on them :) im curious though as much as i loved Ghb, i never got addicted yet i have had opiate addiction problems in the past..i think the ghb high is superior though tbh and i had gallons sitting around yet never fell into addiction but with opiates, i was gone..

      #380240

      ka122g5y
      Member

      [QUOTE=mindsg;650959]I’m in sunny Oz and the government Medicare doesn’t cover Xyrem (GHB equivalent) unfortunately. I am aware of the abuse potential, and do not plan to take it more than once fortnightly.

      As far as I am aware, there is nothing else that can increase the slow-wave deep sleep (NREM) that I’m lacking (done a sleep study a year back) other than Xyrem/GHB. So can anyone point me to a legit source of GBL online?? Shoot me a PM if needed. Cheers![/QUOTE]

      Where are you located? In the US?

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